UGH - this thread makes my head smoke. Why even discuss this? It takes all kinds to make the world interesting and worthwile...period. Who cares why or how,etc.

ahahahah right on!!

i think homosexuality is nature's way of saying "hey people... you're overpopulated. stop having heterosexual sex already."

or it may just be a balance in the reaction between testosterone and estrogen levels in different people. for instance... butch lesbians obviously have higher levels of testosterone in their bodies and therefore are attracted to women.

or in some cases (like alan's perhaps?) they decided that they're gay before these hormone levels even develop, and the concious decision made early in their lives overrides throughout puberty.

or perhaps gayness is a histrionic cry for attention in a society where it's considered taboo, or to freak out their parents (you know, like goth people )

maybe it's a combination of all of the above. i don't know, these are just hetero guesses... so don't quote me or anything.

There is a scientific explaination for homosexuality but it is strictly scientific and doesn't go any further. I won't go into the details since they aren't important and it tends to piss people off but it is all based on overpopulation. There are alot of aspects it doesn't explain such as someone becoming homosexual while growing up in the middle of nowhere.
Personally, I'm with Brandi on this issue. Without people of every sexual and social variety, the world would be lacking something. I beleive that our sexual nature is defined partly by our own bodies, partly by our relative position in society, partly by what our parents unintentionally passed on to us, and partly by the energy that fills our body that was around long before conception.
Really, a full explaination is not necesary.
Just accept people (including yourself) for who they are.

going against the norm, environmental influence, bad experiences with hetrosexual relations, and, in the case of gay girls, being "hip" - those are the biggest determining factors if you ask me. There are others, but more minor.

Regardless, all valid factors are psychological IMHO.

I dont think genetics, chemical levels, or other bio-chemical explainations have anything to do with it. I'd say genetics and chemical levels can impact one's self, but it does not directly determine one's sexual orientation.

This is a choice activly made by oneself, a decision like any other self-determining choice one makes. People can decide thier sexuality as they please - If I suddently felt a desire to schlob a knob, I could easily declare myself gay.

However, homosexuals would *love* for thier behavior to be explained by genetics or other biological means.

What better way to prove thier behavior is natural? Who would question scientific evidence? What better ammo to fight for thier "rights" ?

I think that some of the environmental issues definitely come into play if you're talking about somebody conciously defining themselves as 'gay'.

But homosexual sex is something that just about every mammal out there engages in. ESPECIALLY PRIMATES.

the problem with comparing ourselves with animals is that it questions the value of civilization... and if there was no civilization, there would be no raves

But we are animals, just animals with more brain than we know what to do with.

But the question was one of origin. I'm just noting that those we came from also exhibit this behavior. Basically, there was homosexual behavior before there were humans. Why did this arise? I have no idea.

It does seem to be limited to mammals.

right.



That's part of being on the cutting edge of evolution - humans are a work in progress if you ask me. It's just like new technology - it doesnt always work the way it is designed.

Possibily the lack of engrained sexual preference in mammals is the beginnings of our next step in the evolotuion process? i'd consider it a win for evolution if male/female went away.

i'm serious. for example: hampsters (mammals) eat their babies. since they eat their babies and males kill each other "naturally" that means it's completely natural and okay, right? if we followed animals for our behaviours we would all be barbarians...

now do you see where i'm coming from?

i can't help but argue that humans are more than just animals. we may be classified in the animal kingdom, but we have things like emotions, art, a conscience, and other things like intelligence (as you mentioned) that place us in a far different place than the other animals on this planet.

josh.... right... not riiiiiiiight.. ;)
or simply.. true!



you said it :) and we also learn from the past... and our actions are based much less on instinct.

another thought: dont most mammals supposibly have less instinct than other animals? im no animal expert... but lack (err... reduction?) of instinct could have something to do with homosexuality entering mammals?

oops... i guess it's time to replace the batteries in my sarcasm detector.


this is an interesting point... although my sister told me about this species of frog that mates in the same location once a year, and all the frogs do is go around humping everything in site. sticks, rocks, leaves... eventually they hit a female frog and reproduce.


i don't know if i'd call them homosexual frogs though... they don't even know what they're doing.

hehe, maybe.. could just be the fact that you know ima sarcastic bastard and just assume

nah... no ghey froggies there.

i'm still reseaching this animal homo lovin' thing - I've yet to come up with many references to it, but I havnt had alot of time to look.

this actually comes from a "discussion"--its quoting means i use the word quite loosely--from the other forum on which i hang out a lot. me being half gay myself, i mean absolutely no harm in the topic...i was just looking for any sort of scientific research anyone may have heard/read about concerning the matter. has nothing to do with hate or anything. mere discussion, hence its posting in the debate forum.

haha, half gay.

nice terminology.

It's been most noticed among male apes. I'm not talking about frogs humping everything in sight.

As far as the whole 'animals are not civilized, we have come so far intellectually/evolution-wise that we can't really be compared' thing:

True, but how far have we REALLY come? I wouldn't call blowing a landscape to smithereens over territorial disputes exactly civilized. Our huge brains have conceived new ways to be barbaric, but the old barbarism still exists.

But, I don't really think homosexuality can be accurately described as 'barbarism'.

yea its true. animals dont degrade their enviroments, they contribute to them. they dont speak , yet they communicate very well.

birds fly in a flock in perfect form , yet they have no leader in the pack.

its like humanity is moving to fast for itself as physical beings in the 3rd dimension. stepping up the ladder of evolution was a task unsurely dealt with by man .

-------

i think homosexuality is instictual, but also i think it is not right. i have absolutely no hatred for gays, allthough i think it is a result of the DNA protecting the evolutionary process by restricting your desires wich lead to the reproduction and the passing on of your gene sequence.

in other words, i think gay people have motives and mechanisms buried in the subconcious, passed on by the intentions of one or many horrible individuals bearing their code,possibly hundreds or thousands of years before them. you might call it a genetic curse, yet not at the fault of the individual bearing it. i dont describe them(not the gays, the ones who marked their code in the past before them) as horrible people because of sexual preferance, but becuase of inhuman intentions, such as a very ruthless murder (what if this intention found a means of mutation in the gentic code to a monsterous level, creating someone like hitler or george bush??-- note that im not tagging gayness with murder, this could apply to retards, inbreds, people with aids,and the will to commit suicide).

i think this can be reversed by deep communication with the self on the subject of duality and the importance of it in nature.(assuming you are not retarded and can read this) the animalistc basis for love is natures will to breed strong families wich will unfold its hidden conciousnes. this true love entails respects in the right of the individual , yet is only unlocked and awoken by presence of duality and the abiity to pass on the genome-your imortality.

i know what i said is controversial.. know that none of it has a drop of hate, its purely speculation , and i will be more than happy to explain anything that you might have misunderstood.

you mentioned, i think, to paraphrase, 'passing on the gay gene'... now how is that suppose to work considering one of the key points of homosexuality is lack of procreation? maybe some gay ape that was in the closet and hooked up with a female for his family? i kid. if you could elaborate on that though...

just because barbarism still exists does not mean that humanity on the whole is not civilized. for the most part we all appreciate the arts and recreations, not to mention we have morals. there may be people out there that will steal from others, etc. as long as they benefit from it... i would argue that people who care only about themselves are barbarians.

personally, i can't see homosexuality as something that's refined or enlightened. i'm not going to say it's barbaric, but it seems to me that pointing at the apes and saying "see they do it too" is certainly an argument for such a statement.

im speaking of it as a protection mechanism engineered by a particular strand of dna in order to take itselft out of the loop , as a means of defense for nature to rid its caretakers of fucked up intentions such as the will to murder , kind of like how it is bred in pit bulls. ill note again im not speaking of the gayness as one of the things it is trying to defend itself against, but just as a prtective mechanism in itself against other ailments.

Well, apes have heterosexual sex as well. I was more pointing out that the behavior predates Homo Sapiens.

I'm not saying homosexuality is 'enlightened'. I think sexuality of all stripes is something that exists at the very base of a being's existence. Not enlightened at all, something that exists on a very deep subconcious level.

gheyist thread EVAR!

I concur, to such a great degree that I would also go out of my way to spell it with a fucking *I*, thereby increasing said level of gheynIss tenfold.

<3 i could only love you more if i were a ghey male