This may be a hawtalta topic but I’ve been getting pretty annoyed at people [mostly elitist djs] on edm forums who think vinyl is the only way to go when spinning, and that it’s the best. Sorry, but no, its not. For one, its an expensive hobby. Its much easier to have CDJ and just burn a fucking cd that holds more songs. Secondly, uhh…better quality sounding? Definitely. Also, I’m tired of hearing the same excuse of “real djs play vinyl.” Who gives a shit about the technical meaning of “dj” or how the roots of djing started with vinyl and all that crap. Times changes, and so does the technology. Honestly, it shouldn’t really matter what equipment you use to dj with, as long as you crank some nice tunes, and have decent djing skills, it shouldn’t really be a fucking problem about vinyl over cd, or any other application you use.






-F

serato ftw.

i hate cdjs.

it seems like less talent when you see a dj with cd's. it's like wtf? i can do that.

CD's or vinyl, you still have to beatmatch.

I hold much more respect for the cats who create their own music -- whether or not they actually "DJ", spin, beatmatch or whatever.

i messed around w/ serato and it is fun, but still vinyl > cds.

serato is the best of both worlds. i'm tellin you its the bees knees.

Beads?

bees?

I agree, building shit from scratch is a little more technical, I've seen a few people make some nice beats out of a drum machine, a computer, and a some type of midi synthesizer.

As for Andrea's question, I dont think djing should be looked at so highly, I mean, you are playing somebody else's music. It should be something thats enjoyable to do and have that feeling that anyone can approach it. Awing me by playing vinyl is at the bottem of the list for me, unless its with the hip-hop genre with all the beat juggling etc. Just play some nice tunes!


-F

people who downplay the talent it actually takes to dj really annoys me.

How many times have you been to a place and a guy who knows how to beatmatch dance music very well builds 0 atmosphere, 0 mood and 0 dancefloor (but the bar is hopping with people).

Djing is more than beatmatching, whatever the medium.

There is something to be said for people who keep it real and keep it old school though. Expensive hobby yes, but it's worth every cent if you make it worth it. It's a dying art no matter which way you look at it.

And playing other people's music is a problem? How many bands, groups, singers since the 1920's have made fortunes, made their name and catapulted themselves to stardom by playing someone else's tune or their own rendition of it? More than people care to admit it seems, but most people don't pay much attention to music history as a whole.

my .02

I didnt have the intention of actually making it sound like I was making the "dj" the lesser of all talents. It just gets annoying when some cocky, elitist ass, who has maybe played out a few, try to tell people "how it should be" because thats the way he/she believes it was intended to be [hence, vinyl better over cd].


And when vinyl is dead, then what? Are we gonna bitch about reviving something that will be obsolete 10-20 years down the line? Its kind of waste to even argue now which "is better," up to this point. Plus, as memory serves me, I believe you can only play vinyl so many times before it wears out, no? So personally, "keeping it real and old-school" is inconvenient, unless you're already a famous dj or rich.

As for the history of music thing, most people dont have time to look up the history of a particular song, or dont care.

I was with you up until this point. There's a huge difference between sticking a tape, record or disc into a player, hitting play and mixing it with another track vs. coordinating an entire band to recreate someone else's music.

This is why I have respect for the likes of DJ Dan -- yeah, he plays what everyone else plays, but every time you hear it from "this guy", it sounds different. Why? 'Cuz he actually REMIXED it. Like he does with about 80-90% of what he plays. Same goes for Digweed and Sasha. Folks like Gabriel and Dresden, Above & Beyond, and all those other duo's who create their own music -- their only fall back is that they typically play the same music every time. But that's just like any other band. New album, new music. Either way, I'm gunna hold a lot more respect for them than I do any regular cat who picks up a $200 crate of vinyl every other week just so he has the freshest tunes to spin.

The "huge" difference here is the sound clarity between vinyl and cd. Digital clarity wont ever perfectly represent the continuous audio wave produced by a vinyl, but fuckin' a can it get so close we can't even tell the difference. It's the difference between producing music with your PC vs. an actual instrument. Some don't consider the PC an instrument. More people are accepting this every day, however. Some of the best musical artists I've had the pleasure of observing had nothing but a laptop and their voice... maybe a keyboard. Fuck guitars.

I like(d) vinyl a lot more. It feels a lot better, imo. If cds are your gig, whatever, as long as you put down a good set, I don't care what you're playing on.

I don't think I'll ever get rid of my records, though.

I'd imagine the elitist vinyl djs are probably compensating for their playing abilities, or compensating for the lack of their ability to evolve as musicians.

Edited to add: And for anyone whose argument is based on the audio quality (I used to hold this position in my "more formative years"), I would ask: are you hear to listen to high quality sounds or good music? And to be honest, with how much records get played and scratched, over time a lot of those records don't actually sound as good as cd.

Sometimes the quality of the sound degrades from the potential enjoyment of the music. DJ's are usually the only one's who notice when sound quality lacks, but that comes from experience behind proper headphones with full audible spectrums. A brand new record is going to reflect the identical wave pattern of a recording. A full CD-Audio recording is mapped to bits. The difference is honestly miniscule and these days digital quality more than compensates. Ultimately as a listener I don't really care how or who plays what, so long as the music is good. We just like to look to typical names who bring the best play lists or produce the best music.

There are people out there who are absolutely phenomenal that don't get the attention they deserve. My "number one set" is from Eddie Halliwell. Good Christ, that set was intense. I think he played CD-J's?... point taken.

i play low quality mp3s through serato because i hate high hats.

*tss tss tss tss*

*umch umch tss*

*tss tss tss tss*

I can't argue the originality point but I have to come back to one simple point of view that I will hold probably until the day I die.
I'll start from the bare root.
People do not make up new words on a daily basis. We use a generalized language from day to day to express ourselves and our feelings somehow through these phonics and figures that represent sounds.
When a person uses these sounds and phonics to create sentences and words they are originating their thoughts and putting them into a language that people understand and comprehend. They convey feelings. However the means that they convey these feelings is not new. The words are common enough to be understood by the masses.

A person writes a novel or a story to try and entertain or move people. They use a language that people comprehend and understand. The words are not rocket science, they are words that we use over and over in everyday language, yet when the author gets their point across or creates something that is catchy, the writing is considered innovative, moving, creative, etc.

These writers also do not normally use a format that is unorthodox (for the most part). There is an exposition, there is conflict, there is climax and there is resolution. Such is the format of classical, romantic and other forms of music in it's purest form. If a person is well schooled in arts, they will recognize that this is not different from many different expressive media forms. If a person really wants an example of this, listen to the ENTIRE 9th symphony from Beethoven. The climax and resolution of the final movement and how it ties all the previous movements into it is absolutely genius. However, he copies himself in order to get the point across.

To avoid being extremely long winded (too late I know), this is the formula to any truly entertaining dj "set". Hence the reason why many djs (superstar or experienced amateur) prefer playing longer than an hour. I use Jeremy Baker's statement in the "Sasha and Digweed" thread where he notes that the festival type set is far less effective than the exclusive 3 or 4 hour set where, in effect, a story is told.

The language of music used to tell the story is nothing new. The 4/4 format is nothing groundbreaking (and all ELECTRONIC dance music by definition of being danceable is in SOME 4/4 format, I don't care how you cut or syncopate it), yet the use of the tones, notes and phrases are truly innovative. The same can be said of the programming of the selections of music to create the essay that is the atmosphere or movement of the night.

When a dj can take their sets from beyond that type of simplicity to the complexity of what I have just mentioned, then truly they have used their talent and insight far beyond a "beatmatcher" or "turntablist" status.

When put into practice, if a listener is aware of this type of progression, it makes listening to dj sets an entirely different experience. It also gives the dj much more responsibility when they take control of the turntables whether it be vinyl or digital. To use even more cliches, it's pretty much like taking the red pill. You're damned with that knowledge and nothing seems to meet these standards, by any stretch of the imagination. I will say that sasha, digweed, sharam, dubfire, and danny tenaglia to name a few have the tendency (when playing multihour sets) to employ this and it really is mindblowing when you break it down to the level I have described. But I expect nothing less than this when I listen to any dj set. Hence my jadedness to just accept any joe schmoe dj for a talented one.

One example that comes to mind is the global underground release party that Deep Dish played at Hotel Arena, Amsterdam. 4+ hours and one hell of a story is told by the end of the night. But of course that's just my opinion.

I personally don't care if the DJ's play off a fisher price deck with a mic on the speaker (yes, I've seen this) Except when there is a large system capable of sub-base being used. If you don't gate or cut below 35Hz, standing waves make turntables impossible to play. The needle just drags to the center. With enough cinder blocks, this can be minimized, but the standing wave is still very present. Set the needle on a still record and it's obvious. I personally like the sub bass more than the image, so I vote CDs.

Sub bass is an entirely different topic and why Crystal Method sucks ass on anything less than a top-notch sound system. Feeling the sound vs. hearing it opens an entirely different stimuli. Very good point.

Beautifully put and quite true.

Here is the thing with me. I try not to be one-sided in the whole aspect of sound quality vs. feeling the music (vibe..etc). I try to balance that personal feeling for the music and the feeling sound quality as well. The reason why I feel like this is because I have always loved music, even since I was a little kid, and I realized that I have the ability to pay more attention for tuning and quality of work within the sound. I not only feel like this because I was taugh in school about it, but its just an innate understanding/reaction to the quality of correct sound.

With this in mind, its not like I am totally negate about vinyl completely, its just that I tend to side with more advanced technology that HELPS the quality of sound, so I can enjoy it better, hence feeling the vibe. Though I dont totally throw away the "vibe" feeling, if in this case a set was played on a low quality sound system, mp3, or vinyl, but if I go out and pay like 15-30 dollars to see some average joe tear it up, or a big dj, I want my money's worth. Now since I side with CD's/Laptops mostly, I'm not trying to saying that all djs who play with this equipment have the best sound, but the majority of people who I have been exposed to who use this equpiment -- there is more of a difference in sound quality in my opinion.

Though I fully agree as well that djs should spend more time with vibe as equally, so they can write/paint that story within mixing and selection of tunes. *thumbs up*

I'll admit, once upon a time I was all on the vinyl > cd bandwagon. A lot of this opinion was formed when it was still kinda cheesedick to use CDs, like late '90s or early '00s. Since then, the opinion's changed as I've seen some badass sets on CD. Personally I still prefer vinyl but I definitely don't hate on CDs anymore, especially after being introduced to the beauty of Denon CD players.

man vinyl and cds blow. i spin on laser disc.