Alcohol damages your body too, but I think the bad effects of shrooms and other mind-altering drugs are out weighed by the good effects(and I dont just mean the pretty colors) I'm a BIG believer that one can gain insight and have a religious experience through the use of some of the substances you guys mentioned -with the propper mind set and setting even though it sounds cliche'


some cultures believe that only in altered states will one see the true nature of the world

Why does one have to have 'religious experience'? Or why should one see the true nature of the world? Why does it have to be about that? Why can't it be, just about sitting on my couch and watching tv? Why can't it be about me trying to spin some records. Why can't it be about me staring at the floor watching it breath? Or how about just enjoying the pretty colors..

The world doesn't have to be that 'deep'.. As long as I enjoy myself, and don't do anything stupid.. Like drive a car.. or jump off my balcony then whats the big deal?

Doing drugs isn't about trying to find inner peace for me, or trying to find god.. Its about looking at something in a different way, and having a good time while doing it.

you're right, it can be about anything you want...but personally, i think that although some people don't look for a deeper level, even just doing what you've described, if you do it often enough, can slowly evolve you into seeing deeper things that you weren't even looking for.

andy

p.s. for the record i happen to agree that only through altered states (ANY altered state, not just psychedelic drugs) do we find the true nature of things.

A person is largely determined by what their perspective is though. Your memory is a bank for all your experiences from every perspective you have had, and for the most part they are all pretty consistent. Change of perspective is a progressive one rather than a rapidly shifting one. So if you lost your memory, who would you be? If you change you perspective you will change the way you experience thus changing you as a person.

I don't think discouraging people from taking it is unfair. I'm not stopping them, because they are going to make the final decision. I don't feel that I am depriving them of any special moment. Usually I tell someone something along the lines of, "This is an experience you don't need."




I'm not gonna argue with that, it is something I agree with (that makes sense eh :)). That revelation can come without the aid of hallucinogens, which is what I feel is much healthier.




What is this religious experience? Where is it based? How is this healthy? Where did these beliefs come from and are they true? Those questions are the ones I asked myself. A couple of years ago, we wouldn't be discussing this because I would have the same view point. Now I don't see good in a religious experience where the root of it is a drug. I can remember what is was like living in this other world. This is all my opinion: because I left it, I feel I can see clearly again.

Altered states reveal much but in my most sober of moments is when I learned the most. Of course now you can question what kind of altered state I am in.

religious leaders all over india mongolia and many pacific islanders go out and find mushrooms... and sit and meditate and think for days... some buddhists sects beleive the fly agaric while not PC still offers a perspective into the spiritual realm unequaled to anything else... why some call it fruit of the gods...

ive never seen god... but each time i consume... my aim is to learn or find something new about myself... or about my feelings... and ya know what? it works... and a deep search of myself is what i consider a religious experience... with drugs.. without drugs...

i took some great advice from someone who posts on this board... "when you find what youre looking for... stop doing it"... while its fun for shits and giggles... the experience can be much more fulfilling if youre seeking to gain some sort of understanding...

if a person is of stable mind... i will encourage them to try these things... but if they have overwhelming issues... i wont even bring it up... and just because a person changes doesnt mean its for the worse dom... i really dont see anything wrong with having a broader perspective...

playing with my dog at my old home in cedar park (which i visit frequently) is for me a religious experience. I dont know if I could see it that way before having other experiences that I would consider religious-both on drugs and when I used to go to church.

here's another related question...

is it possible for several people to eat mushrooms out of the same bag....and have most of them trip off of it, and maybe one or two that don't?

there were 2 people out of about 10 that didn't trip...

one that had a high tolerance to psychadelics and the other who had never taken any type of "mind expanding" drug before...

everyone else said they were very good and one person thought that he was actually going insane.

i don't understand acid and shrooms and other types of these drugs.

(1) everyone reacts differently, some to extremes.

(2) one's mental state (both conscious and subconscious) play HUGE roles in an experience like that.

(3) individual caps can vary, even from the same flush.

andy

hmmmmmmmm...

ok...so tell me...what's taking mushrooms like?

(obviously in the previous post, i was the one who didn't feel a thing and hadn't ever tried it before)

it's not exactly something you can explain on a messageboard (at least i can't)...it's hard enough to do it in person, and even then you can't really understand it unless you experience it.

andy

Halucinogens can be as rewarding as they are damaging, it just depends on the person; this is especially true with LSD. We still do not know for sure how LSD breaks down chemically, and what its true effects are. Just look at the bickering in this forum here... everyone has an answer, but no one knows for sure. It is a mystery that will not be unraveled until it is further researched, and of course, with it being illegal, it will prolly never be researched thoroughly.

Dom, thats cool that you warn/educate(?) your friends of these drugs, and even better that you know that, hey, in the end it will be their decision. As with any drug, be aware of what your taking.

In my opinion/experience though, it is quite cool to chill with a drug, just listening to music and letting my mind wander in the comfort and safety of my own home. The mental imagery, creativity, and sometimes yes, the insightfulness i achieve is just awesome. And then being able to share that with a fellow tripper is bad ass. I have fun, but i am safe. There are those who are not so safe.

As far as religious experiences go, i cant say i've had one. I leave that to people who are religious, or who are purposely taking something to have a religious experience (i.e. indian cultures). Nuff said about that.

And hell, when the weekend is over, and Monday rolls around, its back to work and back to the real world again. Back to the grind. But its nice to be able to have that drug outlet every now and then.

I got off topic a little, but this is just my 2 cents here, nothing more.

Anyway, on a side note, its so damn hard for me to find this stuff in this stupid town anyway, i havent given it much thought until now. Crap, now i have a craving for it, and i cant get it. This sucks. :wink:

that's a very good point. to me it seems like psychadelics are almost cheating, going straight to the destination without the work. an acid-like state has been reported to be experienced by yogi's in india and buddhist monks through a combination of mediatation, yoga, etc.

i believe psychadelics can play a role in this though. that one trip might make them realize there is more to the world than they thought, and from here the person may educate themselves and pursue the knowledge through more 'taditional' avenues... a bit of a wake up call i guess.

i have had the most beautiful experience & the most frightening experience on shrooms. since i had never tried a hallucinogen before i didn't truly understand what a bad trip was until i experienced it. honestly i choose to stay away from shrooms becuz i don't want to experience that "ugly" feeling ever again. i thought i lost my mind, i even tried to take ny-quil to sleep off the bad trip. i thought i was never coming back to reality..........boy did i learned my lesson.

the only thing i can say about the mind-altering effects of lsd and mushrooms is that it changes your view on EVERYTHING, even your own personal morals/beliefs.

I see dom's point.

I see no point to gaining knowledge about one's self through a drug experience while destroying your brain. You want to expand your knowledge, go read a book, you might learn something about yourself in the process.

wow.... shrooms....

1. Normal dosage = 2-4 grams depending on tolerance. Reaction varies depeding on your mental state, the variety of shrooms, etc... some have a lot of body, some are very colorful, some will do nothing but make you giggle. Yes, several people can "sautee" off one bag. Try eating a little, waiting til it hits you, then eating some more, that way you can contorl how deep you go. Teas are good for sharing a little bit... you can brew the same shrooms several times, strain them, and each person drinks a cup or two.

2. Price = Average this year is about $10 a gram.

3. Drug Tests = Most standardized drug tests will not detect shrooms... it's a poison, technically. The highest concentration is in your bosy about 30 mins after taking them. The peak should be about 1 1/2 hours into it. You excrete most of it within the first 8hrs after taking it. After 24 hours all is gone but like 15-20%. The last 15-20% stays in your body for several weeks. Depending on how long you like to let your body reciver should determine how long is between trips. If you're still tired or disoriented from the last you shouldn't be going again.

4. The Experience = Different for everyone, and depending on what kind you're taking. Kinda like candy flipping. Your body can feel what your mind sees. More colorful than acid usually. Easier to get visuals than acid usually. It feels "earthy" to a lot of people... no other way to explain it to someone who hasn't experienced it. You feel like you're connected to the Earth. It's almost impossible to have a bad trip on shrooms as long as you go into it with a positive mind and don't open yourself up to negative energy.

Any questions left unanswered?

As with any drug, if you're in a shitty mood or if you have some underlying psychological disturbances bad things can happen or a mental reaction can be triggered. If you're easily depressed, stay away from X; if you've ever doubted your mental sanity, stay away from hallucinogens. (No, those aren't the only indicators, just examples.) Drugs are not for unhappy people or the weak-minded.

ever been camping... or on a float trip down a river... for a week plus at a time??? with no outside stimulation??? when your brain is your only entertainment? you discover wonderful and horrible things about yourself... and you confront these... sort through them... and walk away clear headed and relaxed, relieved and at peace, no guilt... no bad conscious... thats the type of knowledge that im talking about... and i cant think of a book that can do the same... but if you dont have the week plus to seperate yourself from all things real... why not take an evening to do it??? please let it be known i consume knowing damn good and well its purely for fun... but ya know what... while on that total seperation from reality... why not sort through whats going on in my brain... it can take from a few minutes... to a few hours... either way... i walk away with a more comfortable understanding of myself... and possibly how i look at others...

but much like the above post mentions... only do it in prime mental condition... the only person who knows this is the person taking it... unless its obvious they are dragging weight around from a boyfriend or girlfriend... or recent family/friend problems... (real bad ones)... i had a girl eat some mushrooms on my floor... and i havent even read about a trip being as bad as this one... it was on my floor... in my house... my mushrooms... so she tried to blame it on me... i asked if she was 100% sure if she wanted to do it... and she was... so she ate them... and in 15 minutes regretted her decision... and for hours upon hours she was sitting on my floor... having the most horrible things happen to her... sadly she still blames me and her boyfriend for that horrible experience... when it was solely her decision... with absolutely zero pressure from us (the only pressure was having them on us)... she regretted her decision.. and thought it was gonna be bad... so it was... much like life... the experience is whatever you make of it... positive or negative...

it be more of an experience for you because drug trips seem more profound then just reading a book....BUT that doesn't make it more thought-provoking. There are tons of books and even movies out there that will give you so many different theories on our own existence, that are you will never think the same way again, way more then a drug could do (if you are already an open minded person)

yes drugs can open some people's minds, but you can open your own mind without them, you just never knew you had it in you till you experienced the drug. I really don't need help discovering myself cause I like the way I am.

oh sorry... by no outside stimulation, i meant sober... no drugs... no tv.. no newspaper... no radio... only human contact is with your incredibly close friend who is paddling ahead of you...