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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:34 pm 
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God, please... not another religious "discussion" on this fucking board...

:goes to get lots of aspirin:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:44 pm 
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lol..sorry..;x *edit*


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:48 pm 
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It's not fair because if you post it in this thread, it will look like I was only talking about this thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:49 pm 
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Leslie wrote:

Because I've never heard of different denominations going to war against each other over God.


Tell that to the Irish. :D Yes, people have fought over religion for thousands of years. Pick a time in History, and you probably could find a disagreement about faith which led to bloodshed. I think you are entitled to pray if you wish, just don't make everyone else have to listen to your prayers. Personally, I can pray with my eyes open(I know amazing right?), and I do not need someone to spoon feed me a message about God. You can pray whenever you want, at anytime, in school or out of school. What you are contesting is making everyone else be subjected to "your" religion, which is wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:51 pm 
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Leslie wrote:
Benjaminz wrote:
Some people do not even believe in God, why step on their rights?



Because our rights were taken away to pray at schools. This is "One Nation. Under God." It's my personal belief that if you don't believe...don't pray. Simple as that.


Your rights have never been taken away. Tell me when you can not pray? Give me an example. Have you ever heard of seperation of church and state?

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Last edited by Benjaminz111 on Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:53 pm 
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:::d(--_--)b::: wrote:
some people DO believe in God...why step on THEIR rights..


No ones right is stepped on. You can still do whatever you desire, just not on a loud speaker using a state public institution as some kind of religious propaganda device.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:06 am 
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anyone who'd waste time debating such horseshit deserves whatever stress it causes them.

if you really care about your religion and about god, you realize that you don't need to pray over a fucking P.A. system at a god damed football game in order to freely practice your religion. you also realize that god doesn't give a fuck about your highschool football game, and that praying to him over such nonesense is nothing short of disrespectful and completely insulting.

i know these things and i don't even believe in god.

if you don't agree with me, bring it on, but you're wrong and wasting everyone's time.

the end.

andy

p.s. yes religion is fun, because you get to take people who think they know what's what and piss them off to no end, all the while knowing they're fucking dults anyway.

p.p.s. i'm thinking about being jesus for halloween.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:13 am 
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I think Joel L. and Leslie are the same person. 8O

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:34 am 
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andrew davidoff wrote:

p.p.s. i'm thinking about being jesus for halloween.


That would be so much fun!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:47 am 
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This is why Andy will always be my hero.

Congrats, Andy. You alone will be spared from the great stabbing.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:00 am 
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andrew davidoff wrote:
p.s. yes religion is fun, because you get to take people who think they know what's what and piss them off to no end, all the while knowing they're fucking dults anyway.

p.p.s. i'm thinking about being jesus for halloween.
p.s. - i think i remember our debates ending in you claiming agnosticism, not atheism. and i am not a dult for being a theist :pirate:

p.p.s. you fucking stole my idea. bitch. now i gotta come up with another one (although i was actually going to be "buddy jesus").

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:11 am 
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Leslie wrote:
celebrityguest wrote:
Fucking Christian idiots!!! Why do they always start bitching if everything isn't EXACTLY the way they want it?



WTF? Are you really that stupid?

It's the people who AREN'T Christian that bitched and moaned to get prayer out of school. And it's the same people that bitched and moaned and said that we should give kids condoms at school.

Just because you're not a Christian does not give you the right call us idiots. You have the right to disagee. You do not, however, have the right to judge someone based on his/her beliefs.


I have the right, and I'm going for it. I'm not judging all christians, probably not even a majority. I'm judging all the fuckers who picket every gay pride parade, who bomb abortion clinics, who preach hatred to children about anything or anyone they don't understand, who have forgotten that it is not the government's job to represent the 'morals' of their faith, who have forgotten that they share this planet with other people with other beliefs, and who think they're entitiled to run everything because they have the divine will of GOD on their side. Yeah, let your kid catch AIDS and we'll see how you feel about condoms in school. If condoms condoned promiscuity, why did so many kids catch STD's before safe sex was even a concept? And why should Christians get in-school prayer? I have never in my life seen a public school teacher lead a class in a Muslim prayer, or a Jewish prayer. Some christians need to realize that the world should not revolve around their faith.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:14 am 
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Leslie wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that Baptists and Methodists and Catholics have shed blood over who's God is better?

Or are you saying that other religions have fought over their God?


Because I've never heard of different denominations going to war against each other over God.


Two words....Northern Ireland. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:20 am 
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Benjaminz wrote:
I think Joel L. and Leslie are the same person. 8O



You're a fag. And not one of those "born a fag" queers. You CHOSE to be gay. Fuck off.




I really love how people can't get over the fact that there are people out there who *gasp* believe in God. So what if you don't believe? I don't give a shit.

You can sit down all day and tell me how I'm wrong and you're right, and blah blah blah blah blah. But you know what? I KNOW that what I believe is right. Just like you KNOW that what you believe is right. It's called Free Will.

Call me weak, and call me a sheep. It doesn't hurt my feelings. Because I know that I'm not weak. But I am a sheep. And God is my shepherd, through Jesus Christ.

Christians are obviously the minority on this board, which is why I haven't openly said anything about my beliefs. But I really wanted to throw my 2 cents in on this matter, because everybody seems to think they're the victim.


Last edited by Leslie 2.0 v2 on Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:29 am 
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celebrityguest wrote:
If condoms condoned promiscuity, why did so many kids catch STD's before safe sex was even a concept?
you're confusing christianity with catholicism. i refuse to be grouped with catholics, i'm personally convinced that the pope worships satan. all he does is make 'biblical' theism look bad.

for a guy who's so ignorant about religion you sure do talk a lot of shit.


so please stop blaming christians for what catholics have done, that will eliminate 98% of your arguments.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:08 pm 
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Never heard of Focus on the Family? The Christian Coalition? Any of the hundreds of other reactionary groups who think the world should revolve around the tenets of their faith? There are tons of Christians who aren't catholic that also think it is ok to infringe on other people's rights. Mind you, I can't imagine that the majority of Christians are that intolerant.

And this is where I get pissed. I don't tell Christians not to go to church, or to believe as I do. I deserve the same favor back. But what do I get? Folks trying to tell me my sex life should be illegal. Maybe more Christians who want the world to be a peaceful place to live should get up and voice their views. At this point most of the rhetoric voiced on the public stage is filled with vitriol and hate. Very un-christian.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:13 pm 
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yeah, i've heard of them, but i fail to see how they infringe on other people's rights.

perhaps you have an example... and them telling you that it's wrong to be gay is not infringing on your rights, just like somebody telling me to keep my elbows off the table is not infringing on my rights.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:26 pm 
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Uh, when these beliefs are made into laws designed to limit my rights, such as the Defense of Marriage Act, it most certainly is an infringement.

Needless to say, I'm pretty happy about the Texas sodomy law being struck down. 'Bout time!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:27 pm 
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celebrityguest wrote:
Fucking Christian idiots!!! Why do they always start bitching if everything isn't EXACTLY the way they want it?


one word.

H Y P O C R I S Y

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:31 pm 
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celebrityguest wrote:
Uh, when these beliefs are made into laws designed to limit my rights, such as the Defense of Marriage Act, it most certainly is an infringement.

Needless to say, I'm pretty happy about the Texas sodomy law being struck down. 'Bout time!
so are you going to quote specifics or make me read the whole damn act? at least give me a section number or something.

geez you suck at teh debating.
Jeremy Bakers wrote:
one word.

H Y P O C R I S Y
most christians i know will admit to being hypocrites. it goes along with the everyone is a sinner deal.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:39 pm 
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Ok, here ya go, a summary.

Congress of the United States
House of Representatives

SUMMARY AND ANALYSIS

DEFENSE OF MARRIAGE ACT
AS INTRODUCED ON MAY 7, 1996

BY REPS. BOB BARR (GA), STEVE LARGENT (OK), JIM SENSENBRENNER (WI), SUE
MYRICK (NC), ED BRYANT (TN), BILL EMERSON (MO), HAROLD VOLKMER (MO), IKE
SKELTON (MO)

The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) does two things. First, it provides
that no State shall be required to give effect to a law of any other
State with respect to a same-sex "marriage." Second, it defines the
words "marriage" and "spouse" for purposes of Federal law.

The first substantive section of the bill is an exercise of Congress'
power under the "Effect" clause of Article IV, section 1 of the
Constitution (the Full Faith and Credit Clause) to allow each State (or
other political jurisdiction) to decide for itself whether it wants to
grant legal status to same-sex "marriage." This provision is necessary
in light of the possibility of Hawaii giving sanction to same-sex
"marriage" under its state law, as interpreted by its state courts, and
other states being placed in the position of having to give "full faith
and credit" to Hawaii's interpretation of what constitutes "marriage."
Although so-called "conflicts of law" principles do not necessarily
compel such a result, approximately 30 states of the union are
sufficiently alarmed by such a prospect to have initiated legislative
efforts to defend themselves against any compulsion to acknowledge same-
sex "marriage."

This is a problem most properly resolved by invoking Congress' authority
under the Constitution to declare what "effect" one State's acts,
records, and judicial proceedings shall have in another State. Congress
has invoked this authority recently on two other occasions; in the
Parental Kidnaping Prevention Act of 1980, which required each State to
enforce child custody determinations made by the home State if made
consistently with the provisions of the Act; and in the Full Faith and
Credit for child Support Order Act of 1994, which required each State to
enforce child support orders made by the child's State if made
consistently with the provisions of the Act.

The second substantive section of the bill amends the U.S. Code to make
explicit what has been understood under federal law for over 200 years;
that a marriage is the legal union of a man and a woman as husband and
wife, and a spouse is a husband or wife of the opposite sex. The DOMA
definition of marriage is derived most immediately from a Washington
state case from 1974, Singer v. Hara, which is included in the 1990
edition of Black's Law Dictionary. More than a century ago, the U.S.
Supreme Court spoke of the "union for life of one man and one woman in
the holy estate of matrimony." Murphy v. Ramsey, 114 U.S. 15, 45
(1985).

DOMA is not meant to affect the definition of "spouse" (which under the
Social Security law, for example, runs to dozens of lines). It ensures
that whatever definition of "spouse" may be used in Federal law, the
word refers only to a person of the opposite sex.
------

104th CONGRESS 2D SESSION

H.R. 3396

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Mr. BARR of Georgia (for himself, Mr. LARGENT, Mr. SENSENBRENNER, Ms.
MYRICK, Mr. VOLKMER, Mr. SKELTON, Mr. BRYANT, and Mr. EMERSON)
introduced the following bill, which was referred to the Committee
on_____________

A BILL

To define and protect the institution of marriage.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the "Defense of Marriage Act".

SEC. 2. POWERS RESERVED TO THE STATES.

(a) IN GENERAL. -- Chapter 115 of title 28, United States Code, is
amended by adding after section 1738B the following:

Section 1738C. Certain acts, records, and proceedings and the effect
thereof

"No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian
tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or
judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe
respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is
treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory,
possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such
relationship."

(b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT. -- The table of sections at the beginning of
chapter 115 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by inserting
after the item relating to section 1738B the following new item: "1738C.
Certain acts, records, and proceedings and the effect thereof."

SEC. 3. DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE.

(a) IN GENERAL. -- Chapter 1 of title 1, United States Code, is amended
by adding at the end the following:

"Section 7. Definition of 'marriage' and 'spouse'

"In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling,
regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and
agencies of the United States, the word 'marriage' means only a legal
union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word
'spouse' refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or
a wife."

(b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT. -- The table of sections at the beginning of
chapter 1 of title 1, United States Code, is amended by inserting after
the item relating to section 6 the following new item:

"7. Definition of 'marriage' and 'spouse'."

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:43 pm 
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You should find the actual act, not something with someone's opinions thrown all over it. People have a tendency to embelish.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:52 pm 
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There is no god.

end of story.

and if you say there is... PROVE IT.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:53 pm 
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jeremy baker wrote:
There is no god.

end of story.

and if you say there is... PROVE IT.



Prove there isn't.


Just because you don't have physical proof, doesn't mean He doesn't exist.

It's called an open mind, Jeremy. Try having one.


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