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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:26 pm 
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celebrityguest wrote:
Doesn't religious faith by definition usually involve an acceptance of paridigms that cannot be proven logically? Dammit, I swore I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore! :(
not necessarily. we still can't see God.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:01 pm 
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hahahahaha!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:35 pm 
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i'm just marking my spot to see how far i've read.


carry on.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:37 pm 
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Kelley wrote:
i'm just marking my spot to see how far i've read.


carry on.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:39 pm 
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The Darksyde wrote:


He admitted that he had an ulterior motive as a driver himself. "I cannot but be angry when people just throw themselves under my car," he said.



Oh man that's great.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:24 pm 
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Congratulations. You've all managed to post "arguments" that are normally discussed and refuted in a freshman-level philosophy class. Whooptie-fuckin doo. How about you all STFU until you take an epistemology class or two?

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Last edited by symmetry on Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:42 pm 
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symmetry wrote:
Congratulations. You've all managed to post "arguments" that are normally discussed and refuted in a freshman-leve philosophy class. Whooptie-fuckin doo. How about you all STFU until you take an epistemology class or two?


i'm reading descartes, berkeley, leibniz, spinoza and kant for class.... so :silly: .

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:43 pm 
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symmetry wrote:
Congratulations. You've all managed to post "arguments" that are normally discussed and refuted in a freshman-leve philosophy class. Whooptie-fuckin doo. How about you all STFU until you take an epistemology class or two?
college is for the uneducated.

oh, and thanks for you input on the subject. it's easy to sit back and say 'stfu' when you don't have anything to contribute yourself :roll:


you wanna help? why don't you answer this question for me.

thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:55 pm 
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Leslie wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that Baptists and Methodists and Catholics have shed blood over who's God is better?

Or are you saying that other religions have fought over their God?


Because I've never heard of different denominations going to war against each other over God.


Catholics and Protestants..

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According to Freud, every dream is the fulfillment of a wish. However this appears to be overstating the case; nightmares are an obvious counter example. Stephen LaBerg, and Howard Rheingold.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:57 pm 
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:::d(--_--)b::: wrote:
some people DO believe in God...why step on THEIR rights..


thats all fine and dandy.. just don't shove it in my face when i really don't want to hear about it. Keep in the home, or in the church.. not in public..

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According to Freud, every dream is the fulfillment of a wish. However this appears to be overstating the case; nightmares are an obvious counter example. Stephen LaBerg, and Howard Rheingold.

Letting Go 11/25/2007

http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/letting.go.ww ... dh.com.mp3

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:58 pm 
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cheebah josh wrote:
i thought i might throw this little tidbit out there...


i (sadly, yes) went to westlake. football is big at westlake... okay more like huge.
when i went there, the coach would make the football team pray in the inzone every game. he said "you don't have to believe or even listen, just sit there and be quiet with the rest of the team."

shortly after i graduated some pissed off parent voiced up, and westlake was forced to change this 30 year tradition. not long after that westlake lost it's first district game ever.


now i'm not saying "God made them lose" or anything like that, it just struck me an interesting coincidence.



Regardless.. god can give a shit about foot ball.. he or she has more important shit to worry about...

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According to Freud, every dream is the fulfillment of a wish. However this appears to be overstating the case; nightmares are an obvious counter example. Stephen LaBerg, and Howard Rheingold.

Letting Go 11/25/2007

http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/letting.go.ww ... dh.com.mp3

Letting Go Video
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:59 pm 
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cheebah josh wrote:
Leslie wrote:
Just because you're not a Christian does not give you the right call us idiots. You have the right to disagee. You do not, however, have the right to judge someone based on his/her beliefs.
:goldstar:

i love how we can't even have a moment of silence anymore, but it's perfectly fine now to bash people's personal beliefs out in the open.


Freedom of speech..

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According to Freud, every dream is the fulfillment of a wish. However this appears to be overstating the case; nightmares are an obvious counter example. Stephen LaBerg, and Howard Rheingold.

Letting Go 11/25/2007

http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/letting.go.ww ... dh.com.mp3

Letting Go Video
http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/vids/letting. ... dh.com.wmv

http://www.myspace.com/djkdh


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:04 pm 
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Leslie wrote:
I really love how people can't get over the fact that there are people out there who *gasp* believe in God. So what if you don't believe? I don't give a shit.

You can sit down all day and tell me how I'm wrong and you're right, and blah blah blah blah blah. But you know what? I KNOW that what I believe is right. Just like you KNOW that what you believe is right. It's called Free Will.

Call me weak, and call me a sheep. It doesn't hurt my feelings. Because I know that I'm not weak. But I am a sheep. And God is my shepherd, through Jesus Christ.

Christians are obviously the minority on this board, which is why I haven't openly said anything about my beliefs. But I really wanted to throw my 2 cents in on this matter, because everybody seems to think they're the victim.


This is not an attack, so please don't take it that way.. But I think its totally OK to belive in what you want.. You want to belive that goats fly and that the color red is really green? Cool, fine. Just don't force it on me.

(man this will sound really plur and gay but).. I think in the end all that really matters is how good we treat each other.. It doesnt mater what you belive just as long as you are a good person down to the heart.

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According to Freud, every dream is the fulfillment of a wish. However this appears to be overstating the case; nightmares are an obvious counter example. Stephen LaBerg, and Howard Rheingold.

Letting Go 11/25/2007

http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/letting.go.ww ... dh.com.mp3

Letting Go Video
http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/vids/letting. ... dh.com.wmv

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:09 pm 
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Leslie wrote:
You're such a ....for lack of a better word...jerk.


GET OVER IT, BAKER. NOT EVERYONE BELIEVES WHAT YOU BELIEVE.


Not everyone belives in what you belive either..

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According to Freud, every dream is the fulfillment of a wish. However this appears to be overstating the case; nightmares are an obvious counter example. Stephen LaBerg, and Howard Rheingold.

Letting Go 11/25/2007

http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/letting.go.ww ... dh.com.mp3

Letting Go Video
http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/vids/letting. ... dh.com.wmv

http://www.myspace.com/djkdh


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:11 pm 
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DAISHI wrote:
The Darksyde wrote:


He admitted that he had an ulterior motive as a driver himself. "I cannot but be angry when people just throw themselves under my car," he said.



Oh man that's great.


Oh gawd, is that funny! :slayer2:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:36 pm 
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I find it funny how when we look at most religions today, they are all pretty much based on the same thing..love, compassion, tolerance or pretty much just about being a good person..

But when you bring it up, everyone gets up in arms, and most people would love to punch someone in the mouth over it.. Strange..

In the end, it doesn't mater who's right, or who's wrong.. Its more about how good we treat the people around us regardless of what someone might believe in. I could careless what you people believe in, just as much as you could careless about what I believe in.. (and yes, I grew up hardcore New England gloom and doom catholic, but I keep my mouth shut about it) It just doesn't mater.

If there is a 'god' or what not.. I think he or she might not care either about who is right or wrong.. I just hope that when my time ends here, I will get to see all my friends and family that I love with all my heart who are Jewish, Islamic, Protestant, or Buddha in the end anyway.

I jumped into this thread a bit late.. Sorry. =)

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According to Freud, every dream is the fulfillment of a wish. However this appears to be overstating the case; nightmares are an obvious counter example. Stephen LaBerg, and Howard Rheingold.

Letting Go 11/25/2007

http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/letting.go.ww ... dh.com.mp3

Letting Go Video
http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/vids/letting. ... dh.com.wmv

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:26 pm 
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im all about being a good human being, im just not worried about a lightning bolt from the sky if i do something "sinful"

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:59 pm 
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cheebah josh wrote:
M@ wrote:
first order predicate logic to prove the existence of god? you're going to have to go a lot deeper into the logic world.
what standard should i use then that you would agree to?


it doesn't matter, you can try using any symbollic language you like. my point was that first order predicate logic isn't expansive or specific enough to be able to 'prove' such a grandiose and ambitious proposition.

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Last edited by M@ on Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:22 pm 
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whoisdjkdh wrote:
Leslie wrote:
You're such a ....for lack of a better word...jerk.


GET OVER IT, BAKER. NOT EVERYONE BELIEVES WHAT YOU BELIEVE.


Not everyone belives in what you belive either..



Right, but I'm not telling them that they're ignorant for believing what they do.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:09 pm 
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M@ wrote:
cheebah josh wrote:
M@ wrote:
first order predicate logic to prove the existence of god? you're going to have to go a lot deeper into the logic world.
what standard should i use then that you would agree to?


it doesn't matter, you can try using any symbollic language you like. my point was that first order predicate logic isn't expansive or specific enough to be able to 'prove' such a grandiose and ambitious proposition.


All I was trying to prove is that statistics favors the idea that what you perceive is not all there is. I was trying to keep it simple because I know that everyone on the board is not a philosophy major or a logician.
I think monotheism is pretty fucked up, but I would agree w/ them before I'd agree w/ an athiest.
I'm not trying to convert anyone. Just splainin' maself.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:59 pm 
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M@, I apologize... you're one of the few exceptions, and it's obvious from your statements.

Cheebah: You can spout pseudointellectual bromides like "college is for the uneducated" all freaking day, but you're not fooling anyone who has above an undergraduate philosophy education. I understand that you think epistemological subjectivism makes you hot shit, but don't pat yourself on the back too hard. Establishing that as a starting point isn't as impressive as you seem to think... it's more like "welcome to first grade".

Do yourself a favor, and take a look at M@'s reading list. Maybe then you won't offer up simplistic platitudes like "not necessarily. we still can't see God" in response to one of the only intelligent statements in this entire discussion. My problem with your statements lies not necessarily in that I disagree with them, but that they're so incredibly obvious, and that you seem to think you're so damn clever when making them. It annoys the grownups.

As far as your lame attempt at a challenge: why would I want to bother, when your response clearly indicates that I'd be wasting my time? If I wanted have conversations on that level, I'd go teach a special education class.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:06 am 
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hey kiddo, you're the one who's acting educated, not me. my conclusions come from myself, not from 'graduating' with a 'philosophy' degree.

for your information i've read most of the books on M@'s list and found the ones that i have read boring and primitive, but even though they were all written ages ago they still pose questions that have yet to be answered.


i don't claim to be educated when it comes to philosophy standards or definitions. but when you can write a dissertation about how 'uneducated' i am and STILL not even address a simple, one sentence question it becomes apparent that you are the one who is the pseudointellectual.


it's obvious i can't find "knowledge" from you, whatever "knowledge" means. I'll go find out for myself and get back to you.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:08 am 
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M@ wrote:
cheebah josh wrote:
M@ wrote:
first order predicate logic to prove the existence of god? you're going to have to go a lot deeper into the logic world.
what standard should i use then that you would agree to?


it doesn't matter, you can try using any symbollic language you like. my point was that first order predicate logic isn't expansive or specific enough to be able to 'prove' such a grandiose and ambitious proposition.
perhaps you can suggest a 'symbolic language' that will be acceptable (really just an explaination of the original question).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:51 am 
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i've yet to reach that height in logic, the furthest i ever got was induction.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:26 am 
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jeremy baker wrote:
im all about being a good human being, im just not worried about a lightning bolt from the sky if i do something "sinful"


depeding on who you talk to.. *everything* is sinful..

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According to Freud, every dream is the fulfillment of a wish. However this appears to be overstating the case; nightmares are an obvious counter example. Stephen LaBerg, and Howard Rheingold.

Letting Go 11/25/2007

http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/letting.go.ww ... dh.com.mp3

Letting Go Video
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